Developers' Notes on the 5 types of attributes and Ninjutsu

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Developers' Notes on the 5 types of attributes and Ninjutsu

Postby Kage » Wed Sep 30, 2009 12:11 am

Since there are lots of arguments and confusion among the players on the recent changes on attributes and elements skills, we would like to take this chance to share our ideas on the 5 attributes and Ninjutsu in the game, and the recent *** on them.


Attributes and Ninjutsu

In Ninja Saga, there are 5 element types of attributes and Ninjutsu.
Each type of attribute provides unique effects to the characters as well as damage bonus to the corresponding element-based Ninjutsu.

Wind
Wind Element
This element represents "speed" and "agility". Wind ninjas react and take actions quickly than other types of ninjas.
Wind Attribute
This attribute provides agility and dodge bonus.
Wind Ninjutsu
Wind Ninjutsu requires less cool down and chakra consumption than other types of Ninjutsu, while its damage is also lower.

Fire
Fire Element
This element represents "damage" and "burn".
Fire Attribute
This attribute provides damage bonus to all damaging moves and has a chance to increase your damage potential greatly.
Fire Ninjutsu
Fire Ninjutsu does lots of damage to the opponents but they don't have any effective side effects (i.e. no stun or other crowd control abilities).

Lightning
Lightning Element
This element represents "damage" and "burst". When lightning ninjas gets into their full potential, they may be able to kill their opponents in a very short time.
Lightning Attribute
This attribute provides the ninja potential of heavy front loaded damage.
Lightning Ninjutsu
Lightning Ninjutsu creates slightly higher damage than Wind, Water and Earth. It also gives little crowd control abilities (e.g. weak stun), but it requires higher chakra consumption as a trade-off.

Water
Water Element
This element represents "heal" and "cleanse". Water ninjas have very good resistance to negative effects and are very good healing support to their teammates.
Water Attribute
This attribute provides a larger chakra pool to the characters. It also gives the characters a chance to remove all negative effects (i.e. stun, sleep, dot, etc.).
Water Ninjutsu
Water Ninjutsu provides effect healing skills and supportive skills (i.e. remove negative effect skill, which will be introduced in the near future). Water Ninjutsu does not do good damage when compare to other elements.

Earth
Earth Element
This element represents "health" and "defence". Earth ninjas have good defensive skills to support themselves and teammates. They are also able to provide some decent crowd control abilities (e.g. stun).
Earth Attribute
This attribute provides a larger health pool to the characters. It also gives the characters a chance to harden themselves and deal 30% of the damage taken to the attackers. (e.g. if you take 100 damage from an attack move, then you do 30 damage to the attacker.)
Earth Ninjutsu
Earth Ninjutsu provides protective effect and decent crowd control. Earth Ninjutsu doesn't do as much damage as Fire or Lightning but they do slightly higher damage than Water and Wind.


Recent Changes

Many of you must have already noticed that the 5 basic attributes in the game have been adjusted.
(For details: Please read http://www.ninjasaga.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=156)

We understand the changes affect all the players. However, in order to make the game to be more interesting and balanced, we think the changes are needed, and below you may find the theories behind some important ***.

Critical Strike Damage
The critical strike damage bonus is reduced from 200% to 150% because we have noticed that the critical strike damage is so high that some battles are ended within 2-3 turns for some lucky ninjas.
This is problematic in the PvP environment.
Imagine: how fun can it be when one side is killed without even taking any actions? Especially when there are a few stunning skills available, with some luck and some wit to create a critical stunning combo, joy of many players will be deprived in PvP battles.

Wind Attribute
Some players are concerning about that the Wind Ninjutsu are being relatively weak and boring in the current stage. We are also conscious about this and so it is very likely that we will add some "uniqueness" to wind Ninjutsu in the near future.
Don't forget Ninja Saga is still in an early stage and we will develop much more contents and release higher level cap from time to time.
A Lv20 Genin would be unreasonably strong to be able to dodge 1/4 of all attacks. Isn’t it? :)

Attribute Point Reset
Every character now has a "ONE TIME ONLY" reset on their invested attribute points and will be able to distribute them once again. Build your strategy wisely. ;)
(Note: The reset chance is only applicable to players who created their characters before 28 Sept)
(Special Note: We don't have any plans to provide skill unlearn feature. And it is very likely that we will NOT provide this feature.)


Please be reminded that we will keep updating, improving and changing the game contents to make the game to be more interesting and fun to play.
We will try our best to avoid such changes in the future or announce them early so that you know the changes are coming.

We true-heartedly appreciate all the constructive discussions here and feedback from all of you. Please don’t hesitate to discuss the games and give us suggestions on the forum. Our developers may not be able to reply frequently in this forum (I think you would like to see us paying more effort to improve the game :)), but we do listen to every constructive suggestions and critics.

Enjoy Ninja Saga and continue your path to be a mighty ninja!


Cheers,
Ninja Saga Developers
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Re: Developers' Notes on the 5 types of attributes and Ninjutsu

Postby Jinchuuriki » Wed Sep 30, 2009 1:14 am

Thank you very much for the heads up!
Those are really useful information and lights some things that have been discussed about the present and the future!

A few notes that I kept after reading this:
Water Element
This element represents "heal" and "cleanse". Water ninjas have very good resistance to negative effects and are very good healing support to their teammates.
Water Attribute
This attribute provides a larger chakra pool to the characters. It also gives the characters a chance to remove all negative effects (i.e. stun, sleep, dot, etc.).
Water Ninjutsu
Water Ninjutsu provides effect healing skills and supportive skills (i.e. remove negative effect skill, which will be introduced in the near future). Water Ninjutsu does not do good damage when compare to other elements.

Conclusions that I made after reading this:
Probably, there is going to be team-play in the future (you will be able to heal others?!)
Probably, there are going to be more special effects like "dot" - damage over time :o
Probably, there are going to be water jutsu that remove negative effects?! (that might be for party members only or cast-on-self either hmm)

Critical Strike Damage
The critical strike damage bonus is reduced from 200% to 150% because we have noticed that the critical strike damage is so high that some battles are ended within 2-3 turns for some lucky ninjas.
This is problematic in the PvP environment.
Imagine: how fun can it be when one side is killed without even taking any actions? Especially when there are a few stunning skills available, with some luck and some wit to create a critical stunning combo, joy of many players will be deprived in PvP battles.

Wind Attribute
Some players are concerning about that the Wind Ninjutsu are being relatively weak and boring in the current stage. We are also conscious about this and so it is very likely that we will add some "uniqueness" to wind Ninjutsu in the near future.
Don't forget Ninja Saga is still in an early stage and we will develop much more contents and release higher level cap from time to time.
A Lv20 Genin would be unreasonably strong to be able to dodge 1/4 of all attacks. Isn’t it?

~ So very true!!!
with 200% critical damage some fire builds could deal more than 550 damage on a single hit.. making it possible to single hand you in a matter of 2-3 turns considering that you max HP was 860 points. :roll:
~ Ofc.. 25%+ crit and/or dodge were way too high for level 20 genin.
~ Game experience has shown that the feeling of rations change from 0-10% (you feel that your effect is never working), 10-25% (you feel that your effect is triggered some times), 25%-40% (you feel that the effect is triggered quite often), 40-60% (feels like the effect is triggered really often), 60%-80% (feels like the effect is triggered almost always) and 80%+ (feels like the effect is always triggered)
~ Wind Jutsu users smile wide! Uniqueness sounds really interesting..!!

(Special Note: We don't have any plans to provide skill unlearn feature. And it is very likely that we will NOT provide this feature.)

It couldn't be clearer.. :roll:

Thank you again Kage team, (keep up the good work!)
A.A.
Last edited by Jinchuuriki on Wed Sep 30, 2009 1:27 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Developers' Notes on the 5 types of attributes and Ninjutsu

Postby Faust » Wed Sep 30, 2009 1:16 am

Finally, now I hope people would stop whining about how weak/imbalanced their elements are.

We don't have any plans to provide skill unlearn feature. And it is very likely that we will NOT provide this feature.


I'm afraid lots of people would complain about this. I, myself, would want to be able to reset my skills once and only once.

Yes, we're thankful that everyone, especially free users, can reset their stats. But if we reset our stats to get the new one we like, most likely, one or more of our skills now would not have the 1% (* points) damage bonus. So the outcome would be, our skills would have just the base damage (excluding the Fire bonus). And the damage bonus we get for investing our points to the new element we chose would be wasted, because we won't be able to get its corresponding skills (because of the 2-3 limit).

You see, our stats and ninjutsus are linked. Our ninjutsus get stronger for every point we put to its element''s stats. So I think both stats and ninjutsu reset is necessary, after the changes you made. Being unable to "fix" our ninjutsu to go perfectly with the new stats we would choose, is a bit of a letdown.

Edit:

Some players are concerning about that the Wind Ninjutsu are being relatively weak and boring in the current stage. We are also conscious about this and so it is very likely that we will add some "uniqueness" to wind Ninjutsu in the near future.


Wind is weak now but once it reach the middle level it will be more effective than others. It already has a uniqueness. Of all the element, wind is the only one who has high agility which is very important and gives a really good advantage in a turn based game.

Now if you're going to listen to these whiners who chose wind not realizing wind is a strong-at-late-game element, and add another advantage for Wind, then it will be imbalanced again. It'll be just annoying that other elements are only strong now but later they won't be as effective, while the wind element would be strong at early and up to late game.
Last edited by Faust on Wed Sep 30, 2009 8:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Developers' Notes on the 5 types of attributes and Ninjutsu

Postby Warimaseng » Wed Sep 30, 2009 1:30 am

I highly agree with Faust's post.

Btw, I just noticed. LV15 Wind Storm has the same chakra cost on the other LV15 ninjutsus and may I get your point on why lightning ninjutsus have less cooldown (9 at the moment) as compared to the weaker earth and water counterpart which is at 10. You also said that lightning ninjutsu have higher chakra cost but it's currently at par with the others, except wind.

Can you also provide a rough picture on when are wind users going to benefit from having an extra turn? How is the computation precisely done?

Thanks!
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Re: Developers' Notes on the 5 types of attributes and Ninjutsu

Postby JoM » Wed Sep 30, 2009 2:19 am

I like the term "unique in the wind" ........... I hope it comes soon so that we can have a new goal besides fighting NPC and leveling up..........
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Re: Developers' Notes on the 5 types of attributes and Ninjutsu

Postby sasha » Wed Sep 30, 2009 2:41 am

Yes! This should finally make some order in the forum. I also agree with Faust, it would be nice if skills could be reseted once and people will probably continue to complain about that. I'm actually very happy with my jutsus and probably wouldn't change them no matter what could happen to them in some future updates, but i think there should be a one time reset option. This is not a suggestion, just my opinion
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Re: Developers' Notes on the 5 types of attributes and Ninjutsu

Postby Harrydio » Wed Sep 30, 2009 6:32 am

Kage wrote:Wind
Wind Element
This element represents "speed" and "agility". Wind ninjas react and take actions quickly than other types of ninjas.
Wind Attribute
This attribute provides agility and dodge bonus.
Wind Ninjutsu
Wind Ninjutsu requires less cool down and chakra consumption than other types of Ninjutsu, while its damage is also lower.


i really agree for this, especially in chakra consumption
beside its power really weak,, :D

good news, im the one who choose this :)

i think i wanna buy ninja emblem,,, but the ultimate game card isnt avaliable in my contry and i dont have credit card already :cry:
is there another way for me to get ninja emblem ?? :roll:
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Re: Developers' Notes on the 5 types of attributes and Ninjutsu

Postby Estam » Wed Sep 30, 2009 8:34 pm

A Lv20 Genin would be unreasonably strong to be able to dodge 1/4 of all attacks. Isn’t it? :)

Good point. That brings a great idea!

Jinchuuriki wrote:Probably, there are going to be more special effects like "dot" - damage over time :o

There goes the "burn".

(Special Note: We don't have any plans to provide skill unlearn feature. And it is very likely that we will NOT provide this feature.)

I, a free user, am not bothered of unable to skill unlearn. But I am very much concern with what those who paid would have to say. Seriously. But I'd leave that to them (and hopefully they won't).


Btw, to Kage, admin, and FMs, as much as I've seen in a (yeah, just one) game forum, what they do when they release an update is they post a locked thread in Game Updates with a link to a thread they made in General Discussions where forumers get to discuss the update. That is, the update post has the details to the update plus a link below to where players could discuss about it. That way the Game Updates are kept only with game updates, and the discussions are kept under Discussions. It also helps for those players who only hang out in Discussions to notice "Oh, look, we've got a new topic to discuss"!
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Re: Developers' Notes on the 5 types of attributes and Ninjutsu

Postby Jinchuuriki » Thu Oct 01, 2009 2:22 am

Estam wrote:Btw, to Kage, admin, and FMs, as much as I've seen in a (yeah, just one) game forum, what they do when they release an update is they post a locked thread in Game Updates with a link to a thread they made in General Discussions where forumers get to discuss the update. That is, the update post has the details to the update plus a link below to where players could discuss about it. That way the Game Updates are kept only with game updates, and the discussions are kept under Discussions. It also helps for those players who only hang out in Discussions to notice "Oh, look, we've got a new topic to discuss"!


It works better for us this way.. it has to do with forum moderation and ranks in it.
In addition, people should discuss the updates where they are made instead of having additional posts popping out here and there.. it's also a way for them to remember checking for updates instead of just waiting everything to fall in their hands :p it's not that hard to search for updates if interested ;)
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Re: Developers' Notes on the 5 types of attributes and Ninjutsu

Postby bodik001 » Thu Oct 01, 2009 4:49 am

Is there any chance that the earth element be change?

i mean, i don't think that it would be fair for other element users.

wind and thunder have been weaken but the earth attribute has become even stronger.

the 30 hp increase is a bit too much... if you try fighting a earth element user and you are a different element user, the difference in hp is a bit much.. With 600 hp increase earth is almost unbeatable... Especially now that the scroll consumption has been limited.

Maybe a decrease in hp increase or for every point in earth a reduction of chakra?
Everyone has the same chakra except for water. Earth can perform more combos than other elements because of the stun.

I think the other players who are not earth users would agree that earth is a bit imbalanced..

i posted this comment here so that is can be easily noticed.
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